[Marxism] Reminder

Louis Proyect lnp3 at panix.com
Mon May 18 09:45:43 MDT 2009

milongonsinga wrote:
> Waistline2 at aol.com wrote:
> "There was no counter revolution in the Soviet Union during  the Stalin 
> regime. The idea that there is no socialism without democracy and the  proof of 
> no democracy is the existence of the bureaucracy, which effective  
> expropriated the proletariat politically is rather silly."
> The bureaucracy and Stalin arose together. The totalitarian regime Stalin put in place destroyed whatever chance there was for the emergence of a democratic workers' state. Stalin and the bureaucracy expropriated the political power of the working class, giving rise to a sector that was not fully capitalist, but nonetheless in control of the means of production, and, more importantly, the means of coercion. This is where Stalinism effectively meets fascism. There may have been, as Trotsky argued, an opportunity for the workers to retake power. As we've seen, however, it never came to pass, and, as he predicted, the Soviet Union was finally destroyed. There can be no socilaism without democracy, AND there can be no democracy without socialism. The Soviet Union, the dream, died with Stalin's rise. 

We have a rule against discussing Stalin versus Trotsky here. If 
comrades want to know which forums are open to such a discussion, 
contact me privately.

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