[Marxism] sectarian? Re: The Obama Cult

S. Artesian sartesian at earthlink.net
Mon Dec 1 11:33:20 MST 2008


Actually I do ready your posts, and after this last one I went back to 
November 4 and reread all your posts to try and figure out what it is/was 
you're saying.  Today.  or yesterday.

Part of the problem is that almost every time you provide an example and a 
response is provided showing how that example isn't exactly what you say it 
is, you respond by telling that person [not just me] "you're changing the 
subject,"  "you're using the words differently."  Classic bits of 
equivocation, those.

But again at the beginning:

1. Nov 4. You post that "We should share in the celebration,"  because the 
election, "does mark the "cumulative" achievements "for which we contended 
for decades."

2.  Same date:  "Obama [in his acceptance speech] sounded downright 
Lincolnesque."

3. "It almost sounded like he might use his office to compel power and 
wealth to accommodate the needs of the people and demand equality."

4.  Then you post that those serious about engaging Obama supporters should 
check out the Nov5.org-- and you argue that the best bet is for linking up 
with the congressional watchdog organizations to pressure representatives to 
support a [purely] reformist policy.

5. You continue:  "We should look forward to an Obama presidency because it 
is going to place everything we've tried to do on an entirely different 
level."  Man, talk about delusions of grandeur, and magical thinking- this 
has to take the cake.

6.  And "Obama is obligated to take the tried and trued approach."  But he 
is "very intelligent" and he won't be obligated to continue with techniques 
of past failures.  I have no idea what any of that means, other than that 
Obama obviously made use of his educational opportunities.  He won't be 
obligated to contine with techniques of past failures?  Neither was Nixon. 
Bombed ths shit out of the North Vietnamese and some, even on this list, 
think that ended the war in Vietnam because he got US ground troops out and 
forced a peace treaty.  Again more magical thinking-- "I hope it's so, 
therefore it will be so."

7. Then we get the whole positive analogy with FDR spin... and nothing I've 
read since then indicates you think anything less of either FDR or Obama 
since then.

So if I don't understand what you are saying, or what you intend, I really 
don't think the problem is with me.  I think it's with you--- You want Obama 
to be something other than he is.  You want this to be a moment of "deep 
significant social change," and on the plus side of the ledger for... yeah, 
for what?  for what we have contended for decades?  That capitalism as a 
system is a system of richly displayed poverty?  of cultured barbarism?  And 
that there is now a historic opening that has produced, and in turn is 
quickened by, the election of an almost downright Lincolnesque, Rooseveltian 
character?  You're the one who wants to think magically.  It is less of a 
burden an "obligation" in your words, than unrelenting criticism.

And PS,  I never read Chomsky or Zinn.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Lause" <markalause at gmail.com>
To: <sartesian at earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] sectarian? Re: The Obama Cult


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