[Marxism] The disappearing Peronist legacy

John Obrien causecollector at msn.com
Wed Dec 27 01:29:35 MST 2006


Louis,

In addition to the disappearing Peronist legacy - there seems a 
disappearance of respect to comrades by you, that have not attended, or 
worked for, capitalist universities!

I read the points that you raised, and read the other posters to this list, 
on many subjects.  I enjoy the informative posts and contributions on this 
List (as always!!) But your last two responses, was hardly comradely in 
implying, that I am not reading or understanding their points and truly 
smacks of arrogance and may I suggest seems to be classist, rather than a 
comrade, in how you answer my points.

I am not a Columbia University aristocratic professor, challenging socialism 
- but a working person and comrade, who holds passionate views on some 
subjects, such as nazi war criminals and their allies. If you do not  
appreciate my posts, fine, but to dismiss my points - claiming I am not 
reading (or can read at all, i.e. "he is unintelligent"), as you repeated 
three times in your latest email, that I included below (as you then 
complain about my "habitual" repeating?) in your  last two responses, places 
the issue of class, also before this List.

Style and substance are not always the same - but truth and integrity and 
not bourgeois word manipulation, should be of some importance, to those who 
consider a world run by working people and not the privileged, as their 
goal!  A working class comrade should be welcomed on this List and not 
receive back the kinds of dismissive treatment, given by a National Review 
magazine cocktail party crowd of snobs, who think they are superior!!!

Instead of these implied dismissive references by you - please admit your 
mistake and reply TO MY POINT ABOUT JUAN PERON SHELTERING NAZI WAR 
CRIMINALS!

I do not feel I need to (or want to) respond to everything on this List on 
Cuba - and why do you think I alone shoud - if it is a GLBT issue? Cuban 
transvestites, was not what I was focusing on. I never mentioned it in my 
posting, or anything recently on Cuba.  So why was I singled out, on this 
List of hundreds, for this special Cuba mention by you?

My sole focus was on statements made on this List, apparently supported by 
you, that Juan Peron should be viewed as progressive.  Thus ignoring Peron's 
complicity and support of sheltering and partnering with nazi war criminals 
- which you STILL REFUSE To RECOGNIZE AND ADMIT THAT YOU WERE WRONG AND 
SHOULD NOT SEE PERON, AS SOME DECENT PERSON!!!!

So be comradely Luis and admit, that you were wrong, for both your not 
considering the numerous victims of the holocaust, in trying to give some 
praise to Juan Peron, despite the facts about Peron's sheltering nazi war 
criminals, in exhange for financial gains and partnerships - and in being 
classist in implying, that I do not read the posts of others, and understand 
them!!  It is possible to politically and historically disagree, without 
having statements from you - that I do not read - or can not read - or do 
not understand?  This is not the way a socialist should address another 
person on this List!

As with Iran, when you recently on this List, refused to recognize my point 
that I raised, about why you and others on this List, thought it was wrong 
for Gay activists in October 2006, to criticize Iran's government's murder 
of Gays and Lesbians, as objectively aiding U. S. imperialism, but it was 
then okay five weeks later, for you to criticize this same government, for 
its hosting the holocaust deniers conference - and not recognizing that 
there was NOT the same fairness, objectivity and consistency, with these two 
criticisms.  Still waiting for an explanation on that as well!!!!!

Now we have and I will continue to press - why you are trying to defend a 
position - that you really know is undefendable - except for some ego reason 
- of recognizing my points about Peron sheltering nazi war criminals - thus 
eliminating Peron, as being progressive in historical viewing.

Or are you going to go as far as saying, that we should view Mussolini as 
progressive, for his "moderate" views (as Peron?) on Jews, as compared to 
Hitler and of Mussolini's involvement with sociialist views and writings in 
his earlier life, and Mussolini's opposition to British Colonialism, as 
therefore worthy of Mussolini being praised also a progressive!!!!!  Perhaps 
the Vichy government leaders, can be priased as progressives, for their 
opposing continuing British colonialism in Africa and Aisa?  Or Francisco 
Franco's government?

Can not the lives of the victims of the nazi war criminals, be worth 
something more on this List?  Certainly back handed, or direct support, for 
the "progressive nazi sympathizer" Juan Peron - is not the position, that 
you should be trying to take?  My controversial view, that you refuse to 
recognize - is that one (including you!) should be against BOTH British 
imperialism and Juan Peron's sheltering of nazi war criminals.

Why is this so controversial and hard for you to admit - that you are wrong, 
on overlooking Peron's partnership, with wanted nazi war criminals? - and 
you never meant to do so and understand that therefore ruler Juan Peron of 
Argentina, can not be viewed as a progressive.


John O'Brien
a proud socialist and anti-fascist opponent of British colonialism

>From: Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com>
>Reply-To: Activists and scholars in Marxist 
>tradition<marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
>To: Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition 
><marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Marxism] The disappearing Peronist legacy
>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 23:48:56 -0500
>

I see that you chose not to respond to it, but instead simply repeated
>your original points in your habitual fashion. Here's a link to it, in case 
>you accidentally deleted it unread:
>
>http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/state_and_revolution/argentina3.htm
>
>I also see that you didn't respond to Nestor's interesting post on this 
>topic. Here's a link to it, in case you accidentally deleted it unread:
>
>http://www.marxmail.org/msg21100.html

>
>Btw, I also see that you didn't acknowledge that most interesting article 
>from the Washington Post on the emergence of a drag culture in Cuba. Here's 
>a link to it, in case you accidentally deleted it unread: 
>http://www.marxmail.org/msg21078.html
>






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